The fact that she actually is so-called means that she got some need for Susanna

Brand new genealogists all think about it high that Nicholas’ partner Clementia try included right here once the, lower than typical points, she would not be mentioned. When Susanna on some after day was given out over a special protector, the spouse of these protector wasn’t said.

This would signify King John spent a bit indeed there and you can the potential for an enthusiastic amorous liaison which have Clementia can be acquired

Below is a concept advanced because of the some eminent genealogists, however it is fair to declare that the latest results is hotly contested!

That it idea causes a wonderful and you can curious ‘twist’ regarding facts away from Joanna, that may focus admirers off HBD!

On the surface, there would be absolutely nothing to strongly recommend one connection involving the hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and you will Clementia, wife from Nicholas de Verdun. However, the feel of certain genealogists that have international hostages, instance youths, might have been which they was will placed having friends, if any was in fact readily available.

Bouncing toward 1236, there clearly was an admission regarding Tewkesbury annals and therefore pertains to Joanna’s mommy once the “Queen Clemencie!” It checks out simply:

Today, we know that the mother away from Joanna is actually entitled Clementia (Clemence?

In cases like this the new monk is obviously indulging for the gothic legalism. Ahead of their own demise, Joanna is legitimised by Pope. On the basis of one legitimisation, the new Tewksbury monk evidently took it on himself to raise Joanna’s mother on the condition of King, because if their unique mother is King John’s partner! It is true not, you to definitely Queen John and you can Clementia was in fact never hitched. Because of the speaing frankly about Joanna’s mommy because the “Queen” Clementia, brand new monk just who filed Joanna’s passing is actually showing their extreme admiration to possess Joanna, however wanting to change the genuine situations.

Are you aware that label of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget signifies that she is the fresh child from Roger de Dauntsey, regarding Wiltshire. You to definitely genealogist takes into account they high one Clementia acclaimed regarding Wiltshire because the he’s got pointed out that King John had a strong attachment so you can one county, they as being the family out of his safest partners, the brand new Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists found that the name ‘Clementia’ try most unusual certainly one of English noblewomen from the months. In one table regarding ladies names which was collected, there were simply a couple incidents of title “Clementia” off a maximum of 1407 ladies in new take to! The fact that individuals named Clementia will be for the Susanna represents extreme.

Thus! Evidence is effective, but not conclusive, you to from inside the 1228, Susanna, while the an excellent hostage, obtained off to the newest care of their maternal granny, now partner off Nicholas de Verdun!!

The Scottish genealogists of your MacDuffs’ hold one Susanna ferch Llywelyn came into this world 1214 inside the Gwynnedd, Wales and you can died c. 1259 when you look at the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl of Fife when you look at the 1230 along with one or two college students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl off Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.

Of course, there are restrict objections to which conjecture! King John got of a lot mistresses and perhaps possibly 7 illegitimate youngsters. The mother regarding Joanna would-have-been created circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was given birth to circa 1191 (fourteen yrs . old in the course of their unique relationship so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, the latest known genuine child out-of Nicholas de Verdun and his wife Clementia was given birth to circa 1210-1213. When the Clementia https://brightwomen.net/fi/sveitsilaiset-naiset/ is actually the mother from Joanna, she’d come in their late 30’s, very early 40’s whenever having a baby so you’re able to Rohese! Perhaps not impossible, some state, however, not very likely.